Authenticity and Triumph in the Beauty Industry with Editorial Hairstylist Naeemah LaFond (S9, E2)

Hello and welcome to Shades and Layers. I'm your Kutloano Skosana Ricci . Today I'm in conversation with New York-based editorial hairstylist to celebrities, global educator and textured hair advocate, naima Lafond, with signature magazine cover looks that celebrate big textured hair and working with celebrities like Amapiano star, tyler and Beyonce on the launch of her hair brand Sacred. It goes without saying that when she speaks, the industry listens. Naima's signature looks, which draw inspiration from the African continent and incorporate her Haitian roots, have recently landed her an ambassador role at the global hair brand Polar Pets. We talk about why this partnership matters, especially at this moment in the evolution of the natural hair conversation. We cover a wide range of topics, including her role as educator in the industry, her aptly named masterclass Texture on Set and her recently launched mentorship program. So, without further ado, let's get into the conversation with Naima Lafond.

My name is Naima Lafond. I am a hairstylist, an educator, I'm a platform artist. I'm also a global ambassador for Olaplex.

Great. So the reason why we are speaking is because of Olaplex, and I just wanted to get things started off there. So what I've noticed about your career journey is that it's very intentional, including your partnerships. How did this partnership come about with Olaplex and why is it important to your evolution as an artist?

Well, olaplex approached me last year and I was honored, honestly, because I have admired Olaplex from afar for years, just watching the innovation and how focused. But now, with the launch of Bond Builder and watching Olaplex really come out with more styling focused and curl focused products, I do see the synergy there and it all makes sense because I'm a very ingredient focused person, I love science backed products and I think that's something that's been missing in the beauty space for black hair, for textured hair. So once I heard about this partnership, I really thought it was a great fit for me for sure.

Yeah. So speaking of you know product, I mean this you've been in this hair business for many years now and there have been a few changes in the industry. So, in terms of you know product availability, how have you, how has that shift been from your standpoint? What have you observed? That's very significant, particularly for people with textured hair.

I've definitely noticed that the industry is embracing textured hair products more, embracing the innovation behind that and doing more product development research for textured hair, which is important, and I see that continuing to grow. I love that trajectory because, like I said, it's something that I see that we've been missing and I think the whole you know everything that happened in 2020 really set the groundwork for that and we're just seeing the work come to play.

Yeah, so this is perhaps one of the more meaningful changes that have happened in terms of inclusion in the hair industry. I think it's very expensive the way you've explained it, but if you can, just yeah, just say what does it mean to be inclusive as a brand in this hair space?

To me, inclusion as a brand really means having Black people, people of color, in the room where decisions are being made. It's not just about what we're seeing in the campaigns, what we're calling the products, what we're saying the intention is. The true intention shows its face in the boardroom. I think that's what's important, and the meetings that are being had about certain products, like. I think that's where the inclusivity needs to happen, that's where it's most important, because that trickles down. So for me, really, inclusion is all about how brands are pulling in creators, pulling in scientists, pulling in product developers, pulling in people that have, you know, the beauty background, but also are people of color that can speak to how these products work with our hair, which it's so important because it's not the same.

No, absolutely. I had a conversation recently with Shalita Grant I don't know if you know her, she's an actress in CIS and the one thing that she mentioned was, you know, being on set, on a television set, is particularly challenging for actresses of color. She mentioned product availability and that was a big thing that you know, stylists actually very often do not have the right products, especially in those environments. Would you say that there are more options available now? Or you know, slow going, what's happening?

there. It's the stylist having the knowledge to put those products in their kit, put them on their stands, on their makeup stands, their hair stands, to show the client, the person sitting in the chair, like it's a safe space. I have products for you, because texture products that are catered to texture are not a new thing. Right, we're developing them, but it's not new. So there is really no excuse where, you know, a black actress comes on set and there's nothing that caters to her hair. It's really about the hairdresser having the education to know okay, I need to have this, this and this for her, I need to make sure I have oils, I need to make sure I have heat protectant spray, I need to make sure I have edge control, I need to make sure I have some like braiding products, all of those things that cater to textured hair.

Understanding that is key. When I teach about textured hair, that's the first thing I address. We have to understand what we're using and why. Before you even put your hands in the hair, you have to understand that the products that you pick up are important, the products that a client just sees, because that's the first impression as soon as she sits in the chair. She's looking at what you have and before you've even said a word, she knows whether it's a safe space or it's not. And you've said a whole essay without even opening up your mouth. So it's so important to like lay out those products that she feels like oh, wow, like okay, they have curl products.

They have products for, like, if my hair is pressed, they have products for heat protection. All the things are there that make the client feel safe, and that's what's important Just having that knowledge first, to know what products to use.

Speaking of knowledge and education, that was the other area that you know most of my conversations has been about that. You know, cosmetologists are not trained in caring for textured hair in the first place. But there's also another development, hopefully starting to address that the passing of the Crown Act. Yes, do you think that there is movement towards actually realizing the crown act? Yes, it is legislation, but do people actually start respecting it now, or what's uh, what's your take?

well, I feel like we we've had this conversation like just as like black people, people with textured hair for like many years. Right, it's a conversation we're having it within our circles about going to work and not being able to, like, wear your hair in its natural state. I think I did this Cosmo interview. I think it was 2017, 2018. And the title of the article was I'm wearing my Afro to work. Deal with it Like yes. Yeah, and it's like that's a that was a big deal at the moment, like yeah, yeah.

Just wear your hair out as is like. And, honestly, even at the time, I was like shocked at the title, like wow, that's like. Of all the things that I said, that was the main takeaway, but it was. It's just something that we've been dealing with for a long time. I am I don't know if you know the change is welcomed or not, but black women, women with textured hair, are embracing it and they're going to work with it. I think, whether the powers that be like it or not, it's a change that's happening. We are really moving forward and saying like this is this is how I wear my hair. I wear the braids, I wear the fro, I wear the twists, I wear the dreads. I'm going to continue to wear my hair. I wear the braids, I wear the fro, I wear the twists, I wear the dreads. I'm going to continue to wear my hair like. This Legislation is important because, in all fact, people are losing jobs over things like this. People are getting kicked out of school.

So, yes, change is happening, but it also, I think, requires us to take a stand and also just show up. Yeah, absolutely, and you know, this is the key thing, like hairstyle preferences and I will say, preferences in air quotes, because you cannot do what you don't see and you don't know that it's an option if you don't see it in reality. Do you think that there's been a change, or what has been the most remarkable change in terms of customer preferences, you know, in terms of hairstyles products, attitudes the like.

Definitely. I do see that customers clients are more open to wearing their natural hair and I think it's because of the product innovation, what they're seeing just like for the new Bond Builder products, for example, that Olaplex has recently come out with that allows clients to wear their texture and really highlight their texture. That's something where you're explaining that to a client and they're like oh, okay, Like this is something that's not trying to smooth it out or straighten it or revert it in a different direction. It's really trying to highlight my curl pattern. We're seeing more things like that being celebrated, so I think it's making the client feel comfortable to say, yeah, I want my hair like that. So the more we have that innovation, that product innovation that celebrates textured hair, the more comfortable and more confident clients will be in wearing their textured hair.

Because product is important, right? Like if I say I want to wear my hair straight and smooth but there's not a heat protectant or a smoothing product that is going to keep it that way, then I'm not really going to feel confident to go to the salon and ask for that look. Or vice versa, If I say I want to wear my hair curly and big and defined and you know, I want, like my curls, to be bouncy and not stiff and dry. I want to be confident in knowing I can go to the salon and ask for that and they not only they can do it, but they have the products to support it. So it's really products to support the things that we want is so important. It goes hand in hand. Like we can say, we want to wear our hair natural and, you know, just go to work as is and be and live in our full texture.

But the beauty industry has to be there to support that as well. Hey, it's Chasen Layers. I'm speaking to Naima Lafont, editorial hairstylist, global educator and textured hair advocate. It's always interesting to find out what sparks people's career choices and up next we get into that as well as Naima's personal hair journey and how she landed the first gig that got her into the hair industry. You are doing your bit in terms of supporting this industry. I know you've been running a masterclass, you've got a mentorship program, so talk to me about the evolution of your career into the educational space.

Well, I've. I'm a career educator. I've been an educator for many years. I started off actually doing work on set. I did that for a few years and then I started working with brands as creative director, as artistic director, and that allowed me to travel the world to teach and also help launch brands and launch products and explain how products are used and how they can be used in all different types of hair. And I think you know it's a new thing to talk about that, but it's it's been my life's work, honestly where I'm like we don't need a product to say curl on it to be able to be used on curly hair.

Right.

We can go beyond the curl products. Our hair is so versatile, it can do so many things. That's one thing that I've taught for so many years that you can pick up the texture spray and put it on textured hair. It's what it's going to do to my hair. It's just going to make it bigger. You know like it's going to give a reaction, the end result, I feel like oftentimes people are like oh, with curly hair, everyone wants you know.

Like everything in place, perfectly coiled, like that's not everyone's, you know our hair slick back, we wear it curly, we we do so many different things and there are so many different products that can do that. It's not just about a product that says curl on it right. So, as a career educated, it's something that I've been so passionate about um, and then I started doing this masterclass last year where I wanted to focus on texture on set, and that's what it's called. It's called texture on set.

And.

I've gotten so much support from the industry that it became more than a masterclass. It's become a hair show, so it's like this texture hair show.

We're going to do it again in 2025. Olaplex is our title sponsor. I'm so excited for the support behind this. We have so many great brands coming on board to support and it really shows the evolution of the industry and wrapping their arms around texture education and understanding the importance behind that. We know like we want to sell product to everyone and in order to do that, we have to teach everyone how to use product on everyone.

So that brings me to your hair journey, your personal hair journey and how you would describe that. You know. Have you always been confident in your texture? Is it something you've learned along the way? How would you talk about that?

I've always been confident, like I'm a Brooklyn girl. I grew up in Brooklyn in the eighties and and we, you know, there's the round the way salons. Everyone's doing something different. We're frying, dying, laying to the side, it's all kinds of stuff. So throughout my life I've worn my hair in so many different ways and feel confident about it. For me, it's an accessory, it's a piece I love to play. I love to do different things.

Go blonde Nice yeah, I love to play with hair and I really want women to have that freedom all women, I know we're embracing curl, we're embracing texture and that's so important, but at the same time, women are not a monolith. Black women are not a monolith. We should be allowed to play and do all different kinds of things with our hair, and that's just how I've lived my life.

Yeah, that's great. And how did you know that? This is for sure what I want to do, like you know? When did you get you know that tingling feeling, that, whoo, this is exactly what I'm doing with my life?

Well, I think the tingling feeling well, I got the tingling feeling like as soon as I stepped on set and started doing hair. I'm like, wow, this is, people do this for a living. This is crazy, but for me, when it started to feel like purpose and passion came together was when I started to be outspoken about inclusivity and diversity in hair. That's when I felt like what I'm feeling on the inside and what I do for work are truly meshing, because it's conversations that I'm having, things that I'm so passionate about. But then I get into spaces and I'm like I can't say that here. But once.

I set myself free and vocalized what I felt. That's when work and my heart really meshed and I felt like, ooh, the tingles like this is exactly what I need to be doing. This is my life's purpose, really.

Great. And how did you land that first gig on set?

So my best friend at the time I was, I think, maybe 22 or 23. The best age. She was an aspiring model and she's like I'm going to do this thing called a test shoot and I didn't know what that was. She's like me, a photographer, a makeup artist. We're all getting together and just doing a photo shoot so that we can all get pictures for our portfolios. And at the time I had a full-time job. I was a court clerk at the Brooklyn district attorney's office. After college, I was doing, I was, I had my serious job. Yeah, yeah, yeah, what I was doing, I was, I had my serious job and I was like, sure, I'll do this for fun. She asked me because I was the one in college. I was like doing everyone's hair before parties or before like school events.

So I was the girl doing hair in the dorm.

So she came to me and asked me to do that and I went with her and I was just blown away that people do this for work. And I went with her and I was just blown away that people do this for work. I was just like I just do this, for I was just doing this for fun for years. I can't believe this is like a career.

I can't earn a living yet. Great, and do you have any? You know? Memorable or bizarre, whatever incidents on set that you know come back to you and you think, oh my goodness, I can't believe that happened without getting sued.

Yeah, I mean there's a lot of times where I've been on set and people either don't include me or don't, or assume that I'm in the wrong place or I'm not who I am. I do remember once I was I think it was my first my first big photo shoot. I showed up early because I'm like so excited laid my kid out, had everything laid out, and then I was like just sitting there, you know, nice and quiet, waiting for everyone to get going. I saw the photographer setting up people setting up the crafts and food and everyone's getting set up, and I'm just waiting for things to get going and someone comes up to me and she and, mind you, we're like hours in, like now, like two, three hours in.

And I'm like this has taken a while to start. And then the producer comes to me and she's like when is the key hairstylist getting here? And I'm like I'm the key hairstylist. And they're like, oh, it's you. And I'm like, yeah, it's me. And they're like, oh, we saw you sitting there but we assumed you weren't the key. And I'm like, why? And they're like, don't worry about it, well, let's just get started. And that to me, was like kind of like it just like ruined such like an amazing moment that I was just like, oh, it kind of was like a wake up call, like, hey, like I know we're all excited about this career and being on set and doing all the things, but you need to be aware of how you're being viewed as well, so that you know how to navigate this space. So I think it was an unfortunate moment, but it's something that I needed to like open my eyes and be like okay, girl, this is what's happening here and you need to understand the space.

Yeah, I'm sure that still does happen. Yeah, and, and I do know about your mentorship program, can you tell me when you started that? You know, because these are the kinds of things you would maybe share with young people getting into the industry um, when it started and how it's going.

So it started last year. I, like I said I wanted to do the masterclass texture on set and I started planning texture on set. But then I was just like I feel and I know that there's a lot of black women hairstylists who want to work on set and they don't even know where to start. They don't have the who's who in their pocket, they don't have the connections and I felt like that was something that needed to be addressed first before I teach you how to do texture on set. You can't even get on set really, so let's address that first. So I created this mentorship program specifically for black women and currently mentor 22 amazing black women who are doing so good. I'm just so proud of them and their evolution since last year. It's kind of taken on a life of its own. It's become a sisterhood, it's become a safe space for many. They've taught me so many things and I'm really excited about opening up some slots next year to bring on some more women and just to continue to grow that community.

Yeah, and typically when you say set, is it like for magazines. You know which areas are we talking about.

When we talk about beauty, really fashion and beauty, like beauty campaigns, fashion campaigns working for like brands, like big brands that do campaigns for new launches and just fashion in general.

Yeah, it's just such a variety, you know. And I think a lot of people don't realize that you know beyond preparing guests for a wedding, which is, you know, nothing wrong with that, but there's like a whole ecosystem.

Yeah yeah, it's a whole world and I a lot of people don't know about that, like the opportunities that are out there and I really wanted to make sure that I didn't participate in the gatekeeping by holding that information.

I wanted to share it and let people know, like, yes, it's so great to work behind the chair in the salon. That's very fulfilling for many. But also some people want to be more in the fashion space. Some people want to work on beauty campaigns, some people want to work at New York Fashion Week, but they just don't know where to start. You don't learn that in school. No one sits you down to tell you. It's just that you have to know who you know in order to get into it. And I just really want to break that up.

Yeah, yeah, it's Shades and Layers. Time now to learn more about the inspiration behind Naima's famous looks, her approach to working with clients, as well as the shades and layers rapid fire. And before we wrap it all up, Naima tells us what her alternative career path would have been had she not chosen the hair industry. And you know, I've heard you say that being an editorial hairstylist is like being a writer or a painter, and you know you consider what you do art. So how would you describe your signature? You know, how would I know that Naima worked on this?

It's glamorous but it's a little off. I think that's just me. It's like it's like there's the perfection, like it looks glamorous, but there's something that's just a little off to the side. And I just love that. I love having a little something out of place, a little just that.

Right right.

That just does something to me. I just think it just feels real, it feels like a lived experience rather than just a photo. It feels like she's in action, she's in motion, she's, you know, living rather than just perfectly placed there.

So that I think that's my signature. Oh, that's wonderful, great Thank you, and this celebratory feeling that you you bring. You know where do you get your inspiration, like you know where. Where do you see these images that you put together?

It's a lot of research. Growing up, my stepfather was all about the encyclopedia.

Oh, yeah, been there, yep.

He had the full encyclopedia there in the living room and if I asked a question he'd be like look it up. And in looking it up, you know there's sometimes you have the pictures and I'm seeing like all these like tribal references or 1800s in the United States and just all kinds of references that really stuck with me. And when I do hair and when I'm given an idea and they're like you know, we want you to elevate it, take it somewhere else. That's kind of where my mind goes, like back in time, like back in history, to reference those that did it first. That's where I go.

Yeah, and you know how do you give credit to those inspirations? Because I find that it's not necessarily well-known in popular culture, that you know some of these things are ancient practices.

Yeah, so I, for me it's. I do that often through my reels, like I did Whitney peak for the Met Gala, yeah, yeah, and it was like antiquity and I had her picture with her hair. And then when you do, when you slide over, you see like the references of, like the tribal women, yeah, brushed out. I want you to know it's coming from somewhere, like I want you to know that some, not only is it coming from somewhere, but there's some thought went into it, and that we are honoring people as well, we are honoring our ancestors.

That's so important to me to let you know where this is coming from.

Yeah, and I wanted to touch on the deeper meaning you attach to your work, because we're talking more than just hair. You know there's history that's coming in there's, you know, social impact, et cetera. So how would you go about talking about that Like what's, what's the deeper meaning to what you do?

Well, for me, it's really about like leaving everything I've I've done or I'm doing better than I started it, like it's really important to me to just leave things a little bit better than I found them. It's something that my mom taught me. She's a nurse, she worked in hospice care, she's retired now, but she always taught me to do things with meaning, because that's what's going to matter at the end that you live the life of meaning, that you touch people, that, when you had the opportunity, you change people's lives for the better. That's what I want to make sure that I intertwine in everything that I do career-wise, or else it just won't feel good to me.

Yeah, yeah. And speaking of touching people, I read somewhere that you take your daughter to work. Is that still the case?

I take my mini often with me. Sometimes she comes like on stage. Sometimes I take her to a photo shoot. I just want her to see that mommy loves what she does. I want her to see that I'm happy and you know I'm a career woman that is excited about going to work and that it's not like oh sorry, mommy has to go away for the weekend. You know, I'm just so sad. I don't want her to be burdened with that at all.

I want her to know that I'm excited Like I'm going to.

LA tomorrow to do so-and-so's hair. I'm so excited. Take a look at her. What do you think I should do with her hair? And she's like, oh, you should do a ponytail, you should do this. Like I want her to see that in me so that she can carry that for herself as well when she gets older.

Right, that's great. That is so, so meaningful.

Yeah.

Yeah. So the way I speak about sustainability on the podcast is usually in a very broad sense. It's not necessarily just about environment, although that is, but you know it's a holistic approach. So if I say sustainability to you, what comes to mind and how does it manifest in your world?

For me, sustainability really is about, like social impact and how we can have a beauty industry that caters to everyone, that everyone can win in, that everyone can be successful, in, that everyone can see themselves in, or else it's not sustainable. And I think when we got to a point where I felt that the industry wasn't reflective of who I wanted to be as a person in terms of inclusivity, that's when I felt like I had to leave. So that means it's not sustainable, right.

So, it's Really making sure that I am in an industry and I and I also pour into an industry that allows people of all shades, colors, creeds to be a part of, be successful in. That's something that's so important to me and that is what true sustainability in terms of like social impact really means for me of like social impact really means for me and speaking of impact, there is possibly a team behind you.

I think there's a team behind you, so who helps you put it all together. You know, keep the back wheels turning there.

Well, number one girl is my agent Alexia. She is amazing, my agent Alexia, she is amazing. I'm at the wall group. She's an agent with the wall group. She understands who I want to be and how I want to show up in the world, and I think that's what makes it a very cohesive relationship and one that I feel supported, one that I don't feel like I'm doing things that don't quite fit me as an artist. So that's a relationship that I really honor. I really trust her. She holds my career and also my intentions with care, and I think that's so important in an agent or in a team in general People that care about your vision and where it is that you want to go, so that they can help you get there and help you get there with integrity and morals. So that's important.

Yeah, Great. So you have an agent. And then, in terms of you know the practical day to day. Let's say, you're going on set, do you hire freelancers? You know how does that work for you.

So, day to day for, like working on building texture, on set planning, you hire freelancers. You know how does that work for you. So, day to day for like, working on building texture, on set planning, producing that, I have someone who does the production for me for texture on set Jamie. Jamie's amazing. She's like show producer extraordinaire. We've worked together with other brands and worked together for years. She knows how I like to be on stage, how I want to show up. She knows the show that I want to give, so she's like a great producer. I have Shabavian who is my administrative assistant. She handles like all the you know, outside of photo shoot things that come my way that have to do with texture on set or that have to do with my mentorship program.

Right.

And she's a great asset to my team. Like I can't answer all the emails and do all the things, so Shebabian is that, in terms of like, working on set, I have all of my, all of my mentees with black on set. Are the are the people that I tap into when I need assistance on set.

Great.

So that's another perk of being in that mentorship program that I want to use them and bring them into spaces that they probably otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to come into and say, hey, come on set with me and they get to watch me and work with me and learn without judgment, or learn without the fear of not getting that job again, because I know that they probably have not done something like this before and they're so green and I give them the grace to be green, while I teach them.

That's great, but what does success mean to you? How would you define success?

Success to me today means time to do the things that I love to do Time with my daughter. Success means having the option to say yes or no to things. Success means looking in the mirror and being happy with the career decisions that I've made and who I have impacted and how I've impacted people. That is true success. That I can be at peace and lay my head down or look at myself in the mirror and be happy with what I see.

Great, so let's get into the rapid fire. First question is if you had to write a memoir, what would you call it and why?

Feel the fear and do it anyway. I think that is the theme of my life. Honestly, all of the things that I have done that have been big things have been preceded by fear, have been preceded by fear. Fear is where it all starts, but somehow I find the strength to push through and do it anyway, and I think that's something that was learned. That's something that I had to practice. I wasn't always like that. I taught myself to be that way. I motivated myself into doing that. I, you know, prayed myself into doing that.

So, it's something that was taught. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Fear is just a feeling. Get on there and just go like you got this.

Great, great. And who would you choose to play the lead actress in the film version of that story?

You know I would go with Nia Long. Oh yeah, I can see that.

I feel fun.

Nia Long. It just for me. She just feels like a girl's girl, like a regular round the way girl, and that's who I think I am. But I also see like the heart in her and the passion in her, so I think that Nia Long would be best and who would you invite to dinner?

One famous Black woman, living or dead? Who would you invite Famous Black woman?

I think Oprah, because she just knows a lot. She knows a lot of people, she's had a lot of conversations and I think you learn so much about life and conversations. And who's had more conversations than Oprah, right?

Meaningful ones, right yeah.

Impactful ones. It's like gathering all the people that would be an option into one person, and that would be Oprah, because she's probably talked to all of them.

You are so right. And at the moment, what's your favorite hairstyle?

My favorite hairstyle at the moment to do on someone, On you someone, wherever that takes you. I think my favorite hairstyle to do on someone is a sleek ponytail with like a curly ponytail, like a puff, like. I love a puff, like I love the juxtaposition between like super slick and then these big bouncy curls. It's like it's like straight and curly, it's like a straight road and then windy road. I just love that.

And there are many misconceptions about natural or textured hair at the moment. What's the one thing that you would advise people to banish from their minds when they think or deal with textured hair?

That it's hard to do. It's not hard to do, you just have to know what you're doing. Like many things in life.

If you don't know how to do it, it's going to be hard. But once you know it's not hard to do, once you know what you're doing, it's not hard to do. And I hate to hear that, because when people say that, that also creates barriers for a lot of women in beauty, in a lot of things. When you say it's hard, that tells, for example, a producer oh, that model's hair is hard to do, it's going to be hard to switch her from one look to the next. All right, we'll just use the straight hair girl instead. So now someone has just lost an opportunity because there was an assumption made that her hair is hard to do. So if I were to banish something, it's that it's not hard. Just you have to know what you're doing Great.

And what are you looking forward to in the next while? What am I looking?

forward to Just continuing to live authentically. I feel like I'm in my groove, like I feel like all the things that I dreamed of are currently happening. I'm living a dream right now. I have the things that I dreamed of are currently happening. I'm living a dream right now. I I have the career that I've always dreamed of. I have the husband that I've always dreamed of, having the daughter that I prayed for, the peace that I prayed for in life, and also living out the intentions that I've always had.

Right.

It's just so important to me. So continuing that I just continue to pray for this continued peace, that's what I want Peace.

You're all about peace, great.

Peace, yes.

Is there anything else that you'd like to share that maybe we didn't touch on?

If I weren't a hairstylist, I'd be a chef.

Thank you, I was just going back to my list.

If I weren't a hairstylist, I'd be a chef, for sure.

Oh yeah, you like cooking.

I love cooking. I grew up at my mother's hip watching her cook and when I went to college I roommateed with like so many different kinds of people. I had Asian roommates, panamanian roommate, african-american roommates, dominican roommates, and I've I learned from all of them. So I feel like my cooking is a a mosh pit of all of those like amazing cultures oh, that's nice.

Do you cook every day for your family or not? Every day, maybe like three, four times a week yeah, guys, and what's your favorite thing to cook, favorite thing?

to cook, I would say haitian food. I'm haitian, um, because it's like a low and slow kind of process right and I love that, especially for a Sunday where I have nothing to do. Light a few candles, pour some wine, start cooking. It's going to take a few hours. You can sit down, read an excerpt from a book, get back on the stove. I love Haitian cooking for its low and slow and kind of like nurturing that you have to do to it.

Yeah, yeah, oh, that's amazing. Great Sounds like your best way to spend a Sunday.

Yes, yeah, yeah yeah.

So if people want to work with you, tap into your knowledge and get hold of you, where can they find you?

Well, you can find me on my social it's, at Naeem El-Fan on Instagram and also on LinkedIn, naeem Elifan. If you want to learn from me, please come to Texture On Set. So excited again about this event, with Olaplex at the helm helping me make this happen. So I really hope that there's continued support for that, because with that support makes it happen again and again and again. So, yes, great, wonderful.

And that is all from me this time around. I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I enjoyed putting it together. Thanks to Naima for sharing her story so generously, and you can learn more about some of her work in the show notes. And while you are there, please share, like and rate the podcast so that others can find it. Five stars would be amazing. Thank You. I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci, and until next time. Please do take good care.